True DhammaLibrary · Community
SN 44.7PTS SN 4.3912 min read

With Moggallāna

Moggallānasutta

The wanderer Vacchagotta asks Moggallāna the ten metaphysical questions, starting with whether the cosmos is eternal. Moggallāna says such questions would only be answered by someone who identifies with the six senses. Vacchagotta then asks the Buddha the same questions.

Translated by Bhikkhu Sujato · Pāli: Mahāsaṅgīti Tipiṭaka · Public domain (CC0) via SuttaCentral

  • 0.1Saṁyutta Nikāya 44.7Linked Discourses 44.7
  • 0.21. Abyākatavagga1. The Undeclared Points

0.3MoggallānasuttaWith Moggallāna

1.1Atha kho vacchagotto paribbājako yenāyasmā mahāmoggallāno tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā āyasmatā mahāmoggallānena saddhiṁ sammodi.Then the wanderer Vacchagotta went up to Venerable Mahāmoggallāna, and exchanged greetings with him.11.2Sammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho vacchagotto paribbājako āyasmantaṁ mahāmoggallānaṁ etadavoca:When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side, and said to Mahāmoggallāna:

2.1PTS 4.392“Kiṁ nu kho, bho moggallāna, sassato loko”ti?“Worthy Moggallāna, is this right: ‘the cosmos is eternal’?”2

2.2“Abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, vaccha, bhagavatā:“Vaccha, this has not been declared by the Buddha.”2.3‘sassato loko’”ti.

2.4“Kiṁ pana, bho moggallāna, asassato loko”ti?“Then is this right: ‘the cosmos is not eternal’ …2.5“Etampi kho, vaccha, abyākataṁ bhagavatā:2.6‘asassato loko’”ti.2.7“Kiṁ nu kho, bho moggallāna, antavā loko”ti?‘the cosmos is finite’ …32.8“Abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, vaccha, bhagavatā:2.9‘antavā loko’”ti.2.10“Kiṁ pana, bho moggallāna, anantavā loko”ti?‘the cosmos is infinite’ …2.11“Etampi kho, vaccha, abyākataṁ bhagavatā:2.12‘anantavā loko’”ti.2.13“Kiṁ nu kho, bho moggallāna, taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīran”ti?‘the soul and the body are one and the same’ …42.14“Abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, vaccha, bhagavatā:2.15‘taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīran’”ti.2.16“Kiṁ pana, bho moggallāna, aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīran”ti?‘the soul is one thing, the body another’ …2.17“Etampi kho, vaccha, abyākataṁ bhagavatā:2.18‘aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīran’”ti.2.19“Kiṁ nu kho, bho moggallāna, hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti?‘a realized one still exists after death’ …2.20“Abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, vaccha, bhagavatā:2.21‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.2.22“Kiṁ pana, bho moggallāna, na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti?‘a realized one no longer exists after death’ …2.23“Etampi kho, vaccha, abyākataṁ bhagavatā:2.24‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.2.25“Kiṁ nu kho, bho moggallāna, hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti?‘a realized one both still exists and no longer exists after death’ …2.26“Abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, vaccha, bhagavatā:2.27‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.2.28“Kiṁ pana, bho moggallāna, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti?‘a realized one neither still exists nor no longer exists after death’?”

2.29“Etampi kho, vaccha, abyākataṁ bhagavatā:“This too has not been declared by the Buddha.”2.30‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.

3.1PTS 4.393“Ko nu kho, bho moggallāna, hetu ko paccayo, yena aññatitthiyānaṁ paribbājakānaṁ evaṁ puṭṭhānaṁ evaṁ veyyākaraṇaṁ hoti—“What’s the cause, worthy Moggallāna, what’s the reason why, when the wanderers of other religions are asked these questions, they declare one of these to be true?3.2sassato lokoti vā, asassato lokoti vā, antavā lokoti vā, anantavā lokoti vā, taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīranti vā, aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīranti vā, hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā, na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā, hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā?3.3Ko pana, bho moggallāna, hetu ko paccayo, yena samaṇassa gotamassa evaṁ puṭṭhassa na evaṁ veyyākaraṇaṁ hoti—And what’s the reason why, when the ascetic Gotama is asked these questions, he does not declare one of these to be true?”3.4sassato lokotipi, asassato lokotipi, antavā lokotipi, anantavā lokotipi, taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīrantipi, aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīrantipi, hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇātipi, na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇātipi, hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇātipi, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇātipī”ti?

4.1“Aññatitthiyā kho, vaccha, paribbājakā cakkhuṁ ‘etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā’ti samanupassanti …pe…“Vaccha, the wanderers of other religions regard the eye like this: ‘This is mine, I am this, this is my self.’ They regard the ear … nose …4.2jivhaṁ ‘etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā’ti samanupassanti …pe…tongue … body …4.3manaṁ ‘etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā’ti samanupassanti.mind like this: ‘This is mine, I am this, this is my self.’

4.4Tasmā aññatitthiyānaṁ paribbājakānaṁ evaṁ puṭṭhānaṁ evaṁ veyyākaraṇaṁ hoti—That’s why, when asked, they declare one of those answers to be true.4.5sassato lokoti vā …pe…4.6neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā.

4.7Tathāgato ca kho, vaccha, arahaṁ sammāsambuddho cakkhuṁ ‘netaṁ mama, nesohamasmi, na meso attā’ti samanupassati …pe…The Realized One, the perfected one, the fully awakened Buddha regards the eye like this: ‘This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self.’ He regards the ear … nose …4.8jivhaṁ ‘netaṁ mama, nesohamasmi, na meso attā’ti samanupassati …pe…tongue … body …4.9manaṁ ‘netaṁ mama, nesohamasmi, na meso attā’ti samanupassati.mind like this: ‘This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self.’

4.10Tasmā tathāgatassa evaṁ puṭṭhassa na evaṁ veyyākaraṇaṁ hoti—That’s why, when asked, he does not declare one of those answers to be true.”4.11sassato lokotipi …pe…4.12neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇātipī”ti.

5.1Atha kho vacchagotto paribbājako uṭṭhāyāsanā yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavatā saddhiṁ sammodi.Then the wanderer Vacchagotta rose from his seat and went to the Buddha and exchanged greetings with him.5.2Sammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho vacchagotto paribbājako bhagavantaṁ etadavoca:When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side. He asked the Buddha the same questions, and received the same answers.5.3“kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, sassato loko”ti?5.4“Abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, vaccha, mayā: ‘sassato loko’ti …pe….5.5“Kiṁ pana, bho gotama, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti?5.6“Etampi kho, vaccha, abyākataṁ mayā:5.7‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.

6.1PTS 4.394“Ko nu kho, bho gotama, hetu ko paccayo, yena aññatitthiyānaṁ paribbājakānaṁ evaṁ puṭṭhānaṁ evaṁ veyyākaraṇaṁ hoti:6.2‘sassato loko’ti vā …pe…6.3‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā?6.4Ko pana, bho gotama, hetu ko paccayo, yena bhoto gotamassa evaṁ puṭṭhassa na evaṁ veyyākaraṇaṁ hoti:6.5‘sassato loko’tipi …pe…6.6‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipī”ti?

7.1“Aññatitthiyā kho, vaccha, paribbājakā cakkhuṁ ‘etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā’ti samanupassanti …pe…7.2jivhaṁ ‘etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā’ti samanupassanti …pe…7.3manaṁ ‘etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā’ti samanupassanti.7.4Tasmā aññatitthiyānaṁ paribbājakānaṁ evaṁ puṭṭhānaṁ evaṁ veyyākaraṇaṁ hoti:7.5‘sassato loko’ti vā …pe…7.6‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā.7.7Tathāgato ca kho, vaccha, arahaṁ sammāsambuddho cakkhuṁ ‘netaṁ mama, nesohamasmi, na meso attā’ti samanupassati …pe…7.8jivhaṁ ‘netaṁ mama, nesohamasmi, na meso attā’ti samanupassati …pe…7.9manaṁ ‘netaṁ mama, nesohamasmi, na meso attā’ti samanupassati.7.10Tasmā tathāgatassa evaṁ puṭṭhassa na evaṁ veyyākaraṇaṁ hoti:7.11‘sassato loko’tipi, ‘asassato loko’tipi, ‘antavā loko’tipi, ‘anantavā loko’tipi, ‘taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīran’tipi, ‘aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīran’tipi, ‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi, ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi, ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi, ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipī”ti.

8.1PTS 4.395“Acchariyaṁ, bho gotama, abbhutaṁ, bho gotama.He said, “It’s incredible, worthy Gotama, it’s amazing!8.2Yatra hi nāma satthu ca sāvakassa ca atthena attho byañjanena byañjanaṁ saṁsandissati samessati na virodhayissati, yadidaṁ aggapadasmiṁ.How the meaning and the phrasing of the Teacher and the disciple fit together and agree without contradiction when it comes to the chief matter!8.3Idānāhaṁ, bho gotama, samaṇaṁ mahāmoggallānaṁ upasaṅkamitvā etamatthaṁ apucchiṁ.Just now I went to the ascetic Mahāmoggallāna and asked him about this matter.8.4Samaṇopi me moggallāno etehi padehi etehi byañjanehi tamatthaṁ byākāsi, seyyathāpi bhavaṁ gotamo.And he explained it to me with these words and phrases, just like the worthy Gotama.8.5Acchariyaṁ, bho gotama, abbhutaṁ, bho gotama.It’s incredible, worthy Gotama, it’s amazing!8.6Yatra hi nāma satthu ca sāvakassa ca atthena attho byañjanena byañjanaṁ saṁsandissati samessati na virodhayissati, yadidaṁ aggapadasmin”ti.How the meaning and the phrasing of the Teacher and the disciple fit together and agree without contradiction when it comes to the chief matter!”

8.7Sattamaṁ.

Translator’s notes

  1. See SN 33.1:1.2 and note for Vacchagotta.

    This discourse introduces the full set of ten undeclared points.

    ↩ sn44.7:1.1

  2. Loka originally meant “light”, hence the sky bright with gods (stars), from which developed the meanings “heaven”, a “world”, and the “cosmos”. Sometimes Vedists believed that an “eternal world” was won by those worthy (DN 1:1.31.5). However, the Suttas often discuss the Upaniṣadic notion that the “self and the cosmos are eternal” (DN 1:1.30.1, MN 102:14.2), where loka means the “cosmos” as a whole, not a specific heavenly “world”. But the distinction is not always clear-cut. See also next note.

    ↩ sn44.7:2.1

  3. The distinction between a limited “world” and an infinite “cosmos” was said to depend on the wisdom and spiritual depth of the individual: “Those who venerate (water, breath, and moon) as finite win only a limited world, whereas those who venerate them as infinite win a world without limit” (Bṛhadāraṇyaka Upaniṣad 1.5.13, Olivelle translation).

    ↩ sn44.7:2.7

  4. The term “soul” (jīva) was favored by the samaṇas, as opposed to the “self” (attā) of the brahmins. Both are rejected by the Buddha as forms of “metaphysical” self: they postulate the absolute, eternal existence of entities that cannot be established empirically. The repeated demonstrative pronouns (taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīraṁ) assert an emphatic identity.

    ↩ sn44.7:2.13