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SN 12.24PTS SN 2.325 min read

Followers of Other Religions

Aññatitthiyasutta

Sāriputta is asked by various ascetics as to the origin of suffering. He replies that the Buddha teaches that suffering originates by conditions. Moreover, all those who offer opinions as to the source of suffering are themselves part of the web of conditions, as they cannot state their views without contact. Ānanda reports the exchange to the Buddha, who praises Sāriputta’s answer.

Translated by Bhikkhu Sujato · Pāli: Mahāsaṅgīti Tipiṭaka · Public domain (CC0) via SuttaCentral

  • 0.1Saṁyutta Nikāya 12.24Linked Discourses 12.24
  • 0.23. Dasabalavagga3. The Ten Powers

0.3AññatitthiyasuttaFollowers of Other Religions

1.1Rājagahe viharati veḷuvane.Near Rājagaha, in the Bamboo Grove.1.2Atha kho āyasmā sāriputto pubbaṇhasamayaṁ nivāsetvā pattacīvaramādāya rājagahaṁ piṇḍāya pāvisi.Then Venerable Sāriputta robed up in the morning and, taking his bowl and robe, entered Rājagaha for alms.1.3Atha kho āyasmato sāriputtassa etadahosi:Then it occurred to him,1.4“atippago kho tāva rājagahe piṇḍāya carituṁ.“It’s too early to wander for alms in Rājagaha.1.5Yannūnāhaṁ yena aññatitthiyānaṁ paribbājakānaṁ ārāmo tenupasaṅkameyyan”ti.Why don’t I visit the monastery for the wanderers of other religions?”1

2.1PTS 2.33Atha kho āyasmā sāriputto yena aññatitthiyānaṁ paribbājakānaṁ ārāmo tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā tehi aññatitthiyehi paribbājakehi saddhiṁ sammodi.Then he went to the monastery for the wanderers of other religions and exchanged greetings with the wanderers there.2.2Sammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinnaṁ kho āyasmantaṁ sāriputtaṁ te aññatitthiyā paribbājakā etadavocuṁ:When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side. The wanderers said to him:

3.1“Santāvuso sāriputta, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṅkataṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti.“Reverend Sāriputta, there are ascetics and brahmins who teach the efficacy of deeds. Some of them assert that suffering is made by oneself.23.2Santi panāvuso sāriputta, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā paraṅkataṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti.Some of them assert that suffering is made by another.3.3Santāvuso sāriputta, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca dukkhaṁ paññapenti.Some of them assert that suffering is made by both oneself and another.3.4Santi panāvuso sāriputta, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti.Some of them assert that suffering arises anomalously, not made by oneself or another.33.5Idha, panāvuso sāriputta, samaṇo gotamo kiṁvādī kimakkhāyī?What does the ascetic Gotama say about this? How does he explain it?3.6Kathaṁ byākaramānā ca mayaṁ vuttavādino ceva samaṇassa gotamassa assāma, na ca samaṇaṁ gotamaṁ abhūtena abbhācikkheyyāma, dhammassa cānudhammaṁ byākareyyāma, na ca koci sahadhammiko vādānupāto gārayhaṁ ṭhānaṁ āgaccheyyā”ti?How should we answer so as to repeat what the ascetic Gotama has said, and not misrepresent him with an untruth? How should we explain in line with his teaching, with no legitimate grounds for rebuttal and criticism?”4

4.1“Paṭiccasamuppannaṁ kho, āvuso, dukkhaṁ vuttaṁ bhagavatā.“Reverends, the Buddha has said that suffering is dependently originated.4.2Kiṁ paṭicca?Dependent on what?4.3Phassaṁ paṭicca.Dependent on contact.54.4Iti vadaṁ vuttavādī ceva bhagavato assa, na ca bhagavantaṁ abhūtena abbhācikkheyya, dhammassa cānudhammaṁ byākareyya, na ca koci sahadhammiko vādānupāto gārayhaṁ ṭhānaṁ āgaccheyya.In speaking like this, you would repeat what the Buddha has said, and not misrepresent him with an untruth. You would explain in line with his teaching, and there would be no legitimate grounds for rebuttal and criticism.

5.1PTS 2.34Tatrāvuso, ye te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṅkataṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti tadapi phassapaccayā.Consider the ascetics and brahmins who teach the efficacy of deeds. In the case of those who assert that suffering is made by oneself, that’s dependent on contact.5.2Yepi te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā paraṅkataṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti tadapi phassapaccayā.In the case of those who assert that suffering is made by another, that’s also dependent on contact.5.3Yepi te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca dukkhaṁ paññapenti tadapi phassapaccayā.In the case of those who assert that suffering is made by oneself and another, that’s also dependent on contact.5.4Yepi te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti tadapi phassapaccayā.In the case of those who assert that suffering arises anomalously, not made by oneself or another, that’s also dependent on contact.

6.1Tatrāvuso, ye te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṅkataṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti, te vata aññatra phassā paṭisaṁvedissantīti netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati.Consider the ascetics and brahmins who teach the efficacy of deeds. In the case of those who assert that suffering is made by oneself, it’s impossible that they will experience that without contact.66.2Yepi te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā paraṅkataṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti, te vata aññatra phassā paṭisaṁvedissantīti netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati.In the case of those who declare that suffering is made by another, it’s impossible that they will experience that without contact.6.3Yepi te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca dukkhaṁ paññapenti, te vata aññatra phassā paṭisaṁvedissantīti netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati.In the case of those who assert that suffering is made by oneself and another, it’s impossible that they will experience that without contact.6.4Yepi te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti, te vata aññatra phassā paṭisaṁvedissantīti netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjatī”ti.In the case of those who assert that suffering arises anomalously, not made by oneself or another, it’s impossible that they will experience that without contact.”

7.1Assosi kho āyasmā ānando āyasmato sāriputtassa tehi aññatitthiyehi paribbājakehi saddhiṁ imaṁ kathāsallāpaṁ.Venerable Ānanda heard this discussion between Venerable Sāriputta and those wanderers of other religions.7.2Atha kho āyasmā ānando rājagahe piṇḍāya caritvā pacchābhattaṁ piṇḍapātapaṭikkanto yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavantaṁ abhivādetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi.Then Ānanda wandered for alms in Rājagaha. After the meal, on his return from almsround, he went to the Buddha, bowed, sat down to one side,7.3Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho āyasmā ānando yāvatako āyasmato sāriputtassa tehi aññatitthiyehi paribbājakehi saddhiṁ ahosi kathāsallāpo taṁ sabbaṁ bhagavato ārocesi.and informed the Buddha of all they had discussed.

8.1“Sādhu sādhu, ānanda, yathā taṁ sāriputto sammā byākaramāno byākareyya.“Good, good, Ānanda! It’s just as Sāriputta has so rightly explained.8.2Paṭiccasamuppannaṁ kho, ānanda, dukkhaṁ vuttaṁ mayā.I have said that suffering is dependently originated.8.3Kiṁ paṭicca?Dependent on what?8.4Phassaṁ paṭicca.Dependent on contact.8.5Iti vadaṁ vuttavādī ceva me assa, na ca maṁ abhūtena abbhācikkheyya, dhammassa cānudhammaṁ byākareyya, na ca koci sahadhammiko vādānupāto gārayhaṁ ṭhānaṁ āgaccheyya.Saying this you would repeat what I have said, and not misrepresent me with an untruth. You would explain in line with my teaching, and there would be no legitimate grounds for rebuttal and criticism.7

9.1PTS 2.35Tatrānanda, ye te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṅkataṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti tadapi phassapaccayā.Consider the ascetics and brahmins who teach the efficacy of deeds. In the case of those who assert that suffering is made by oneself, that’s dependent on contact. …9.2Yepi te …pe…9.3yepi te …pe…9.4yepi te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti tadapi phassapaccayā.In the case of those who assert that suffering arises anomalously, not made by oneself or another, that’s also dependent on contact.

10.1Tatrānanda, yepi te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṅkataṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti, te vata aññatra phassā paṭisaṁvedissantīti netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati.In the case of those who assert that suffering is made by oneself, it’s impossible that they will experience that without contact. …10.2Yepi te …pe…10.3yepi te …pe…10.4yepi te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti, te vata aññatra phassā paṭisaṁvedissantīti netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati.In the case of those who assert that suffering arises anomalously, not made by oneself or another, it’s impossible that they will experience that without contact.

11.1Ekamidāhaṁ, ānanda, samayaṁ idheva rājagahe viharāmi veḷuvane kalandakanivāpe.Ānanda, this one time I was staying near Rājagaha in the Bamboo Grove, the squirrels’ feeding ground.11.2Atha khvāhaṁ, ānanda, pubbaṇhasamayaṁ nivāsetvā pattacīvaramādāya rājagahaṁ piṇḍāya pāvisiṁ.Then I robed up in the morning and, taking my bowl and robe, entered Rājagaha for alms.11.3Tassa mayhaṁ, ānanda, etadahosi:Then I thought:11.4‘atippago kho tāva rājagahe piṇḍāya carituṁ.‘It’s too early to wander for alms in Rājagaha.11.5Yannūnāhaṁ yena aññatitthiyānaṁ paribbājakānaṁ ārāmo tenupasaṅkameyyan’ti.Why don’t I visit the monastery for the wanderers of other religions?’

12.1Atha khvāhaṁ, ānanda, yena aññatitthiyānaṁ paribbājakānaṁ ārāmo tenupasaṅkamiṁ; upasaṅkamitvā tehi aññatitthiyehi paribbājakehi saddhiṁ sammodiṁ.Then I went to the monastery for the wanderers of other religions and exchanged greetings with the wanderers there.12.2Sammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdiṁ. Ekamantaṁ nisinnaṁ kho maṁ, ānanda, te aññatitthiyā paribbājakā etadavocuṁ:When the greetings and polite conversation were over, I sat down to one side. …”

13.1PTS 2.36‘Santāvuso gotama, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṅkataṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti.(The wanderers asked the Buddha the very same questions, and he gave the same answers.)13.2Santi panāvuso gotama, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā paraṅkataṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti.13.3Santāvuso gotama, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca dukkhaṁ paññapenti.13.4Santi panāvuso gotama, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti.13.5Idha no āyasmā gotamo kiṁvādī kimakkhāyī?13.6Kathaṁ byākaramānā ca mayaṁ vuttavādino ceva āyasmato gotamassa assāma, na ca āyasmantaṁ gotamaṁ abhūtena abbhācikkheyyāma, dhammassa cānudhammaṁ byākareyyāma, na ca koci sahadhammiko vādānupāto gārayhaṁ ṭhānaṁ āgaccheyyā’ti?

14.1Evaṁ vuttāhaṁ, ānanda, te aññatitthiye paribbājake etadavocaṁ:14.2‘paṭiccasamuppannaṁ kho, āvuso, dukkhaṁ vuttaṁ mayā.14.3Kiṁ paṭicca?14.4Phassaṁ paṭicca.14.5Iti vadaṁ vuttavādī ceva me assa, na ca maṁ abhūtena abbhācikkheyya, dhammassa cānudhammaṁ byākareyya, na ca koci sahadhammiko vādānupāto gārayhaṁ ṭhānaṁ āgaccheyyāti.

15.1Tatrāvuso, ye te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṅkataṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti tadapi phassapaccayā.15.2Yepi te …pe…15.3yepi te …pe…15.4yepi te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti tadapi phassapaccayā.

16.1Tatrāvuso, ye te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṅkataṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti, te vata aññatra phassā paṭisaṁvedissantīti netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati.16.2Yepi te …pe…16.3yepi te …pe…16.4yepi te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti, te vata aññatra phassā paṭisaṁvedissantīti netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjatī’”ti.

17.1“Acchariyaṁ bhante, abbhutaṁ bhante.“It’s incredible, sir, it’s amazing,17.2Yatra hi nāma ekena padena sabbo attho vutto bhavissati.how the whole matter is stated with one phrase.817.3Siyā nu kho, bhante, esevattho vitthārena vuccamāno gambhīro ceva assa gambhīrāvabhāso cā”ti?Could there be a detailed explanation of this matter that is both deep and appears deep?”9

18.1“Tena hānanda, taññevettha paṭibhātū”ti.“Well then, Ānanda, clarify this matter yourself.”

18.2“Sace maṁ, bhante, evaṁ puccheyyuṁ:“Sir, suppose they were to ask me:18.3‘jarāmaraṇaṁ, āvuso ānanda, kiṁnidānaṁ kiṁsamudayaṁ kiṁjātikaṁ kiṁpabhavan’ti?‘Reverend Ānanda, what is the source, origin, birthplace, and inception of old age and death?’18.4Evaṁ puṭṭhohaṁ, bhante, evaṁ byākareyyaṁ:I’d answer like this:18.5‘jarāmaraṇaṁ kho, āvuso, jātinidānaṁ jātisamudayaṁ jātijātikaṁ jātipabhavan’ti.‘Reverends, rebirth is the source, origin, birthplace, and inception of old age and death.’18.6Evaṁ puṭṭhohaṁ, bhante, evaṁ byākareyyaṁ.That’s how I’d answer such a question.

19.1PTS 2.37Sace maṁ, bhante, evaṁ puccheyyuṁ:Suppose they were to ask me:19.2‘jāti panāvuso ānanda, kiṁnidānā kiṁsamudayā kiṁjātikā kiṁpabhavā’ti?‘What is the source of rebirth?’19.3Evaṁ puṭṭhohaṁ, bhante, evaṁ byākareyyaṁ:I’d answer like this:19.4‘jāti kho, āvuso, bhavanidānā bhavasamudayā bhavajātikā bhavappabhavā’ti.‘Continued existence is the source of rebirth.’19.5Evaṁ puṭṭhohaṁ, bhante, evaṁ byākareyyaṁ.That’s how I’d answer such a question.

20.1Sace maṁ, bhante, evaṁ puccheyyuṁ:Suppose they were to ask me:20.2‘bhavo panāvuso ānanda, kiṁnidāno kiṁsamudayo kiṁjātiko kiṁpabhavo’ti?‘What is the source of continued existence?’20.3Evaṁ puṭṭhohaṁ, bhante, evaṁ byākareyyaṁ:I’d answer like this:20.4‘bhavo kho, āvuso, upādānanidāno upādānasamudayo upādānajātiko upādānappabhavo’ti.‘Grasping is the source of continued existence.’20.5Evaṁ puṭṭhohaṁ, bhante, evaṁ byākareyyaṁ.That’s how I’d answer such a question.

21.1Sace maṁ, bhante, evaṁ puccheyyuṁ—Suppose they were to ask me:21.2upādānaṁ panāvuso …pe…‘What is the source of grasping?’ …21.3taṇhā panāvuso …pe…craving …21.4vedanā panāvuso …pe…feeling …21.5sace maṁ, bhante, evaṁ puccheyyuṁ:Suppose they were to ask me:21.6‘phasso panāvuso ānanda, kiṁnidāno kiṁsamudayo kiṁjātiko kiṁpabhavo’ti?‘What is the source of contact?’21.7Evaṁ puṭṭhohaṁ, bhante, evaṁ byākareyyaṁ:I’d answer like this:21.8‘phasso kho, āvuso, saḷāyatananidāno saḷāyatanasamudayo saḷāyatanajātiko saḷāyatanappabhavo’ti.‘The six sense fields are the source, origin, birthplace, and inception of contact.’21.9‘Channaṁ tveva, āvuso, phassāyatanānaṁ asesavirāganirodhā phassanirodho;‘When the six fields of contact fade away and cease with no residue left behind, contact ceases.1021.10phassanirodhā vedanānirodho;When contact ceases, feeling ceases.21.11vedanānirodhā taṇhānirodho;When feeling ceases, craving ceases.21.12taṇhānirodhā upādānanirodho;When craving ceases, grasping ceases.21.13upādānanirodhā bhavanirodho;When grasping ceases, continued existence ceases.21.14bhavanirodhā jātinirodho;When continued existence ceases, rebirth ceases.21.15jātinirodhā jarāmaraṇaṁ sokaparidevadukkhadomanassupāyāsā nirujjhanti.When rebirth ceases, old age and death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress cease.21.16Evametassa kevalassa dukkhakkhandhassa nirodho hotī’ti.That is how this entire mass of suffering ceases.’21.17Evaṁ puṭṭhohaṁ, bhante, evaṁ byākareyyan”ti.That’s how I’d answer such a question.”

21.18Catutthaṁ.

Translator’s notes

  1. Sāriputta, like his teacher, seeks out meaningful discussion with people who are not Buddhist.

    ↩ sn12.24:1.5

  2. See SN 12.17 and notes.

    ↩ sn12.24:3.1

  3. They believed in the efficacy of deeds, but not that such deeds created suffering (or “pleasure and pain” in the next discourse). This seems odd, but it’s not irrational. Perhaps they believed that one’s deeds create a new life, but that the experiences of pleasure and pain in that life arise from circumstances beyond the control of oneself or others.

    ↩ sn12.24:3.4

  4. The wanderers frame their question carefully and respectfully, so Sāriputta answers them directly and affirms their manner of questioning.

    ↩ sn12.24:3.6

  5. The wanderers have already shown their epistemological caution, so, in identifying “contact” as the key dependency, Sāriputta indicates one of the most directly observable factors of dependent origination. But contact is also a key underlying cause of wrong views (DN 1:3.45.1).

    ↩ sn12.24:4.3

  6. Sāriputta clarifies the meaning of “dependent”: it is something without which the other cannot be experienced, i.e. it is a necessary condition.

    ↩ sn12.24:6.1

  7. The explicit affirmation and repetition of information reinforces the correct text in the memory and wards off creeping disinformation.

    ↩ sn12.24:8.5

  8. Compare with attho vutto in the Itivuttaka. Here the sense is that the topic can be summed up with one statement.

    ↩ sn12.24:17.2

  9. The phrase “deep and appears deep” is spoken twice elsewhere, also by Ānanda in the context of dependent origination (DN 15:1.5, SN 12.60:1.4).

    ↩ sn12.24:17.3

  10. Ānanda recapitulates, confirming that the sequence here goes back only as far as the six senses. This agrees with DN 1:3.71.12, which likewise goes back to the six senses. There, the factors beginning with ignorance are implied under wrong view.

    ↩ sn12.24:21.9