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SN 12.68PTS SN 2.1153 min read

At Kosambī

Kosambisutta

Venerable Saviṭṭha questions Venerable Musīla about his attainments, and concludes he is an arahant. But Venerable Nārada offers an explanation showing that it is possible to see the Dhamma without having fully realized arahantship.

Translated by Bhikkhu Sujato · Pāli: Mahāsaṅgīti Tipiṭaka · Public domain (CC0) via SuttaCentral

  • 0.1Saṁyutta Nikāya 12.68Linked Discourses 12.68
  • 0.27. Mahāvagga7. The Great Chapter

0.3KosambisuttaAt Kosambī

1.1Ekaṁ samayaṁ āyasmā ca musilo āyasmā ca paviṭṭho āyasmā ca nārado āyasmā ca ānando kosambiyaṁ viharanti ghositārāme.At one time the venerables Musīla, Saviṭṭha, Nārada, and Ānanda were staying near Kosambī in Ghosita’s monastery.11.2Atha kho āyasmā paviṭṭho āyasmantaṁ musilaṁ etadavoca:Then Venerable Saviṭṭha said to Venerable Musīla:

1.3“aññatreva, āvuso musila, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā atthāyasmato musilassa paccattameva ñāṇaṁ:“Reverend Musīla, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, do you personally know that21.4‘jātipaccayā jarāmaraṇan’”ti?rebirth is a requirement for old age and death?”

1.5“Aññatreva, āvuso paviṭṭha, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā ahametaṁ jānāmi ahametaṁ passāmi:“Reverend Saviṭṭha, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, I know and see that1.6‘jātipaccayā jarāmaraṇan’”ti.rebirth is a requirement for old age and death.”3

2.1PTS 2.116“Aññatreva, āvuso musila, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā atthāyasmato musilassa paccattameva ñāṇaṁ:“Reverend Musīla, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberateation, do you personally know that2.2‘bhavapaccayā jātīti …pe…continued existence is a requirement for rebirth …2.3upādānapaccayā bhavoti …grasping is a requirement for continued existence …2.4taṇhāpaccayā upādānanti …craving is a requirement for grasping …2.5vedanāpaccayā taṇhāti …feeling is a requirement for craving …2.6phassapaccayā vedanāti …contact is a requirement for feeling …2.7saḷāyatanapaccayā phassoti …the six sense fields are requirements for contact …2.8nāmarūpapaccayā saḷāyatananti …name and form are requirements for the six sense fields …2.9viññāṇapaccayā nāmarūpanti …consciousness is a requirement for name and form …2.10saṅkhārapaccayā viññāṇanti …choices are a requirement for consciousness …2.11avijjāpaccayā saṅkhārā’”ti?ignorance is a requirement for choices?”

2.12“Aññatreva, āvuso paviṭṭha, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā ahametaṁ jānāmi ahametaṁ passāmi:“Reverend Saviṭṭha, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, I know and see that2.13‘avijjāpaccayā saṅkhārā’”ti.ignorance is a requirement for choices.”

3.1“Aññatreva, āvuso musila, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā atthāyasmato musilassa paccattameva ñāṇaṁ:“Reverend Musīla, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, do you personally know that3.2‘jātinirodhā jarāmaraṇanirodho’”ti?when rebirth ceases, old age and death cease?”

3.3“Aññatreva, āvuso paviṭṭha, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā ahametaṁ jānāmi ahametaṁ passāmi:“Reverend Saviṭṭha, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, I know and see that3.4‘jātinirodhā jarāmaraṇanirodho’”ti.when rebirth ceases, old age and death cease.”

4.1PTS 2.117“Aññatreva, āvuso musila, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā atthāyasmato musilassa paccattameva ñāṇaṁ:“Reverend Musīla, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, do you personally know that4.2‘bhavanirodhā jātinirodhoti …pe…when continued existence ceases, rebirth ceases …4.3upādānanirodhā bhavanirodhoti …when grasping ceases, continued existence ceases …4.4taṇhānirodhā upādānanirodhoti …when craving ceases, grasping ceases …4.5vedanānirodhā taṇhānirodhoti …when feeling ceases, craving ceases …4.6phassanirodhā vedanānirodhoti …when contact ceases, feeling ceases …4.7saḷāyatananirodhā phassanirodhoti …when the six sense fields cease, contact ceases …4.8nāmarūpanirodhā saḷāyatananirodhoti …when name and form cease, the six sense fields cease …4.9viññāṇanirodhā nāmarūpanirodhoti …when consciousness ceases name and form cease …4.10saṅkhāranirodhā viññāṇanirodhoti …when choices cease consciousness ceases …4.11avijjānirodhā saṅkhāranirodho’”ti?when ignorance ceases, choices cease?”

4.12“Aññatreva, āvuso paviṭṭha, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā ahametaṁ jānāmi ahametaṁ passāmi:“Reverend Saviṭṭha, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, I know and see that4.13‘avijjānirodhā saṅkhāranirodho’”ti.when ignorance ceases, choices cease.”

5.1“Aññatreva, āvuso musila, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā atthāyasmato musilassa paccattameva ñāṇaṁ:“Reverend Musīla, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, do you personally know that5.2‘bhavanirodho nibbānan’”ti?the cessation of continued existence is extinguishment?”4

5.3“Aññatreva, āvuso paviṭṭha, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā ahametaṁ jānāmi ahametaṁ passāmi:“Reverend Saviṭṭha, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, I know and see that5.4‘bhavanirodho nibbānan’”ti.the cessation of continued existence is extinguishment.”

6.1“Tenahāyasmā musilo arahaṁ khīṇāsavo”ti?“Then Venerable Musīla is a perfected one, with defilements ended.”56.2Evaṁ vutte, āyasmā musilo tuṇhī ahosi.When he said this, Musīla kept silent.6

7.1Atha kho āyasmā nārado āyasmantaṁ paviṭṭhaṁ etadavoca:Then Venerable Nārada said to Venerable Saviṭṭha,7.2“sādhāvuso paviṭṭha, ahaṁ etaṁ pañhaṁ labheyyaṁ.“Reverend Saviṭṭha, please let me answer these questions.7.3Maṁ etaṁ pañhaṁ puccha.Ask me7.4Ahaṁ te etaṁ pañhaṁ byākarissāmī”ti.and I will answer them for you.”

7.5“Labhatāyasmā nārado etaṁ pañhaṁ.“By all means, Venerable Nārada, try these questions.7.6Pucchāmahaṁ āyasmantaṁ nāradaṁ etaṁ pañhaṁ.I’ll ask you7.7Byākarotu ca me āyasmā nārado etaṁ pañhaṁ.and you can answer them for me.”

8.1Aññatreva, āvuso nārada, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā atthāyasmato nāradassa paccattameva ñāṇaṁ:(Saviṭṭha repeats exactly the same series of questions, and Nārada answers just as Musīla did.)8.2‘jātipaccayā jarāmaraṇan’”ti?8.3“Aññatreva, āvuso paviṭṭha, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā ahametaṁ jānāmi ahametaṁ passāmi:8.4‘jātipaccayā jarāmaraṇan’”ti.

9.1“Aññatreva, āvuso nārada, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā atthāyasmato nāradassa paccattameva ñāṇaṁ—9.2bhavapaccayā jāti …pe…9.3avijjāpaccayā saṅkhārā”ti?9.4“Aññatreva, āvuso paviṭṭha, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā ahametaṁ jānāmi ahametaṁ passāmi:9.5‘avijjāpaccayā saṅkhārā’”ti.

10.1“Aññatreva, āvuso nārada, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā atthāyasmato nāradassa paccattameva ñāṇaṁ:10.2‘jātinirodhā jarāmaraṇanirodho’”ti?10.3“Aññatreva, āvuso paviṭṭha, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā ahametaṁ jānāmi ahametaṁ passāmi:10.4‘jātinirodhā jarāmaraṇanirodho’”ti.

11.1“Aññatreva, āvuso nārada, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā atthāyasmato nāradassa paccattameva ñāṇaṁ:11.2‘bhavanirodhā jātinirodhoti …pe…11.3avijjānirodhā saṅkhāranirodho’”ti?11.4“Aññatreva, āvuso paviṭṭha, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā ahametaṁ jānāmi ahametaṁ passāmi:11.5‘avijjānirodhā saṅkhāranirodho’”ti.

12.1“Aññatreva, āvuso nārada, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā atthāyasmato nāradassa paccattameva ñāṇaṁ:“Reverend Nārada, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, do you personally know that12.2‘bhavanirodho nibbānan’”ti?the cessation of continued existence is extinguishment?”

12.3“Aññatreva, āvuso paviṭṭha, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā ahametaṁ jānāmi ahametaṁ passāmi:“Reverend Saviṭṭha, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, I know and see that12.4‘bhavanirodho nibbānan’”ti.the cessation of continued existence is extinguishment.”

13.1PTS 2.118“Tenahāyasmā nārado arahaṁ khīṇāsavo”ti?“Then Venerable Nārada is a perfected one, with defilements ended.”

13.2“‘Bhavanirodho nibbānan’ti kho me, āvuso, yathābhūtaṁ sammappaññāya sudiṭṭhaṁ, na camhi arahaṁ khīṇāsavo.“I have truly seen clearly with right wisdom that the cessation of continued existence is extinguishment. Yet I am not a perfected one.713.3Seyyathāpi, āvuso, kantāramagge udapāno, tatra nevassa rajju na udakavārako.Suppose there was a well on a desert road that had neither rope nor bucket.13.4Atha puriso āgaccheyya ghammābhitatto ghammapareto kilanto tasito pipāsito, so taṁ udapānaṁ olokeyya.Then along comes a person struggling in the oppressive heat, weary, thirsty, and parched.13.5Tassa ‘udakan’ti hi kho ñāṇaṁ assa, na ca kāyena phusitvā vihareyya.They’d know that there was water, but they couldn’t physically touch it.

13.6Evameva kho, āvuso, ‘bhavanirodho nibbānan’ti yathābhūtaṁ sammappaññāya sudiṭṭhaṁ, na camhi arahaṁ khīṇāsavo”ti.In the same way, I have truly seen clearly with right wisdom that the cessation of continued existence is extinguishment. Yet I am not a perfected one.”

14.1Evaṁ vutte, āyasmā ānando āyasmantaṁ paviṭṭhaṁ etadavoca:When he said this, Venerable Ānanda said to Venerable Saviṭṭha,814.2“evaṁvādī tvaṁ, āvuso paviṭṭha, āyasmantaṁ nāradaṁ kiṁ vadesī”ti?“Reverend Saviṭṭha, what do you have to say to Venerable Nārada when he speaks like this?”

14.3“Evaṁvādāhaṁ, āvuso ānanda, āyasmantaṁ nāradaṁ na kiñci vadāmi aññatra kalyāṇā aññatra kusalā”ti.“Reverend Ānanda, I have nothing to say to Venerable Nārada when he speaks like this, except what is good and wholesome.”

14.4Aṭṭhamaṁ.

Translator’s notes

  1. Musīla is mentioned only here.

    Saviṭṭha may also appear at AN 3.21, but it may be a different person, as that monk’s name is also spelled Samiddha, and the time, place, and people are all different.

    Nārada appears in AN 5.50.

    This monastery was favored by Ānanda, who was the teacher of Ghosita, the monastery’s donor (SN 35.129). He stayed there following the Buddha’s passing and the First Council (SN 22.90:4.2). Many, perhaps all, of the discourses featuring Ānanda here were set in the period after the Buddha’s death, including this one.

    ↩ sn12.68:1.1

  2. This is a standard set of grounds for belief, which play a limited role in supporting the search for truth, but do not yield any definitive answers (MN 95, MN 101, MN 102, SN 35.153, AN 3.65, AN 3.66, AN 4.193).

    Parivitakka means “train of thought”, as when the Buddha reads Kāpaṭika’s thoughts (MN 95:12.6). Ākāra in this context means “reason”, as at MN 47:10.2.

    Khanti is usually better rendered “acceptance” than the common “patience”.

    ↩ sn12.68:1.3

  3. This emphasizes that dependent origination is directly known through experience.

    ↩ sn12.68:1.6

  4. This is a particularly blunt expression for Nibbāna.

    ↩ sn12.68:5.2

  5. The question of who, exactly, qualified as perfected became critical in the Saṅgha when the Buddha was no longer present to decide such matters. It was the decisive issue leading to the first schism between the ancestral Sthavira and Mahāsaṅghika schools, which happened after Ashoka, perhaps two centuries after the Buddha.

    ↩ sn12.68:6.1

  6. Silence is usually taken as assent, and the commentary says this is the case here: Musīla was in fact an arahant.

    ↩ sn12.68:6.2

  7. Saviṭṭha’s error lay in assuming that seeing cessation implies arahantship. To “truly see” and similar terms signify stream-entry (or above), while the end of grasping signifies perfection.

    ↩ sn12.68:13.2

  8. The question of who is an arahant has the potential to tear apart a community, as followers align with their preferred saint. Ānanda, aware of this, is swift to restore harmony.

    ↩ sn12.68:14.1