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SN 12.67PTS SN 2.1124 min read

Sheaves of Reeds

Naḷakalāpīsutta

Venerables Mahākoṭṭhita and Sāriputta discuss whether the factors of dependent origination are created by oneself, another, both, or by chance.

Translated by Bhikkhu Sujato · Pāli: Mahāsaṅgīti Tipiṭaka · Public domain (CC0) via SuttaCentral

  • 0.1Saṁyutta Nikāya 12.67Linked Discourses 12.67
  • 0.27. Mahāvagga7. The Great Chapter

0.3NaḷakalāpīsuttaSheaves of Reeds

1.1PTS 2.113Ekaṁ samayaṁ āyasmā ca sāriputto āyasmā ca mahākoṭṭhiko bārāṇasiyaṁ viharanti isipatane migadāye.At one time Venerable Sāriputta and Venerable Mahākoṭṭhita were staying near Varanasi in the deer park at Isipatana.1

1.2Atha kho āyasmā mahākoṭṭhiko sāyanhasamayaṁ paṭisallānā vuṭṭhito yenāyasmā sāriputto tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā āyasmatā sāriputtena saddhiṁ sammodi.Then in the late afternoon, Venerable Mahākoṭṭhita came out of retreat, went to Venerable Sāriputta, and exchanged greetings with him.1.3Sammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho āyasmā mahākoṭṭhiko āyasmantaṁ sāriputtaṁ etadavoca:When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side and said to Sāriputta:

1.4“kiṁ nu kho, āvuso sāriputta, sayaṅkataṁ jarāmaraṇaṁ, paraṅkataṁ jarāmaraṇaṁ, sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca jarāmaraṇaṁ, udāhu asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ jarāmaraṇan”ti?“Well, Reverend Sāriputta, are old age and death made by oneself? Or by another? Or by both oneself and another? Or do they arise anomalously, not made by oneself or another?”2

1.5“Na kho, āvuso koṭṭhika, sayaṅkataṁ jarāmaraṇaṁ, na paraṅkataṁ jarāmaraṇaṁ, na sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca jarāmaraṇaṁ, nāpi asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ jarāmaraṇaṁ.“No, Reverend Koṭṭhita, old age and death are not made by oneself, nor by another, nor by both oneself and another, nor do they arise anomalously, not made by oneself or another.1.6Api ca jātipaccayā jarāmaraṇan”ti.Rather, rebirth is a requirement for old age and death.”

2.1“Kiṁ nu kho, āvuso sāriputta, sayaṅkatā jāti, paraṅkatā jāti, sayaṅkatā ca paraṅkatā ca jāti, udāhu asayaṅkārā aparaṅkārā adhiccasamuppannā jātī”ti?“Well, Reverend Sāriputta, is rebirth made by oneself? Or by another? Or by both oneself and another? Or does it arise anomalously, not made by oneself or another?”

2.2“Na kho, āvuso koṭṭhika, sayaṅkatā jāti, na paraṅkatā jāti, na sayaṅkatā ca paraṅkatā ca jāti, nāpi asayaṅkārā aparaṅkārā adhiccasamuppannā jāti.“No, Reverend Koṭṭhita, rebirth is not made by oneself, nor by another, nor by both oneself and another, nor does it arise anomalously, not made by oneself or another.2.3Api ca bhavapaccayā jātī”ti.Rather, continued existence is a requirement for rebirth.”

3.1“Kiṁ nu kho, āvuso sāriputta, sayaṅkato bhavo …pe…“Well, Reverend Sāriputta, is continued existence made by oneself? …” …3.2sayaṅkataṁ upādānaṁ …“Is grasping made by oneself? …” …3.3sayaṅkatā taṇhā …“Is craving made by oneself? …” …3.4sayaṅkatā vedanā …“Is feeling made by oneself? …” …3.5sayaṅkato phasso …“Is contact made by oneself? …” …3.6sayaṅkataṁ saḷāyatanaṁ …“Are the six sense fields made by oneself? …” …3.7sayaṅkataṁ nāmarūpaṁ, paraṅkataṁ nāmarūpaṁ, sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca nāmarūpaṁ, udāhu asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ nāmarūpan”ti?“Well, Reverend Sāriputta, are name and form made by oneself? Or by another? Or by both oneself and another? Or do they arise anomalously, not made by oneself or another?”

3.8“Na kho, āvuso koṭṭhika, sayaṅkataṁ nāmarūpaṁ, na paraṅkataṁ nāmarūpaṁ, na sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca nāmarūpaṁ, nāpi asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ, adhiccasamuppannaṁ nāmarūpaṁ.“No, Reverend Koṭṭhita, name and form are not made by oneself, nor by another, nor by both oneself and another, nor do they arise anomalously, not made by oneself or another.3.9Api ca viññāṇapaccayā nāmarūpan”ti.Rather, consciousness is a requirement for name and form.”

4.1“Kiṁ nu kho, āvuso sāriputta, sayaṅkataṁ viññāṇaṁ, paraṅkataṁ viññāṇaṁ, sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca viññāṇaṁ, udāhu asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ viññāṇan”ti?“Well, Reverend Sāriputta, is consciousness made by oneself? Or by another? Or by both oneself and another? Or does it arise anomalously, not made by oneself or another?”

4.2“Na kho, āvuso koṭṭhika, sayaṅkataṁ viññāṇaṁ, na paraṅkataṁ viññāṇaṁ, na sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca viññāṇaṁ, nāpi asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ viññāṇaṁ.“No, Reverend Koṭṭhita, consciousness is not made by oneself, nor by another, nor by both oneself and another, nor does it arise anomalously, not made by oneself or another.4.3Api ca nāmarūpapaccayā viññāṇan”ti.Rather, name and form are requirements for consciousness.”3

5.1PTS 2.114“Idāneva kho mayaṁ āyasmato sāriputtassa bhāsitaṁ evaṁ ājānāma:“Just now I understood you to say:45.2‘na khvāvuso koṭṭhika, sayaṅkataṁ nāmarūpaṁ, na paraṅkataṁ nāmarūpaṁ, na sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca nāmarūpaṁ, nāpi asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ nāmarūpaṁ.‘No, Reverend Koṭṭhita, name and form are not made by oneself, nor by another, nor by both oneself and another, nor do they arise anomalously, not made by oneself or another.5.3Api ca viññāṇapaccayā nāmarūpan’ti.Rather, consciousness is a requirement for name and form.’

6.1Idāneva ca pana mayaṁ āyasmato sāriputtassa bhāsitaṁ evaṁ ājānāma:But I also understood you to say:6.2‘na khvāvuso koṭṭhika, sayaṅkataṁ viññāṇaṁ, na paraṅkataṁ viññāṇaṁ, na sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca viññāṇaṁ, nāpi asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ viññāṇaṁ.‘No, Reverend Koṭṭhita, consciousness is not made by oneself, nor by another, nor by both oneself and another, nor does it arise anomalously, not made by oneself or another.6.3Api ca nāmarūpapaccayā viññāṇan’ti.Rather, name and form are requirements for consciousness.’

7.1Yathā kathaṁ panāvuso sāriputta, imassa bhāsitassa attho daṭṭhabbo”ti?How then should we see the meaning of this statement?”

7.2“Tenahāvuso, upamaṁ te karissāmi.“Well then, reverend, I shall give you a simile.7.3Upamāyapidhekacce viññū purisā bhāsitassa atthaṁ jānanti.For by means of a simile some sensible people understand the meaning of what is said.7.4Seyyathāpi, āvuso, dve naḷakalāpiyo aññamaññaṁ nissāya tiṭṭheyyuṁ.Suppose there were two sheaves of reeds leaning up against each other.5

7.5Evameva kho, āvuso, nāmarūpapaccayā viññāṇaṁ;In the same way, name and form are requirements for consciousness.7.6viññāṇapaccayā nāmarūpaṁ;Consciousness is a requirement for name and form.7.7nāmarūpapaccayā saḷāyatanaṁ;Name and form are requirements for the six sense fields.7.8saḷāyatanapaccayā phasso …pe…The six sense fields are requirements for contact. …7.9evametassa kevalassa dukkhakkhandhassa samudayo hoti.That is how this entire mass of suffering originates.7.10Tāsañce, āvuso, naḷakalāpīnaṁ ekaṁ ākaḍḍheyya, ekā papateyya;If the first of those sheaves of reeds were to be pulled away, the other would collapse.7.11aparañce ākaḍḍheyya, aparā papateyya.And if the other were to be pulled away, the first would collapse.

7.12Evameva kho, āvuso, nāmarūpanirodhā viññāṇanirodho;In the same way, when name and form cease, consciousness ceases.7.13viññāṇanirodhā nāmarūpanirodho;When consciousness ceases, name and form cease.7.14nāmarūpanirodhā saḷāyatananirodho;When name and form cease, the six sense fields cease.7.15saḷāyatananirodhā phassanirodho …pe…When the six sense fields cease, contact ceases. …7.16evametassa kevalassa dukkhakkhandhassa nirodho hotī”ti.That is how this entire mass of suffering ceases.”

8.1“Acchariyaṁ, āvuso sāriputta;“It’s incredible, Reverend Sāriputta, it’s amazing!8.2abbhutaṁ, āvuso sāriputta.8.3Yāvasubhāsitañcidaṁ āyasmatā sāriputtena.How well spoken this was by Venerable Sāriputta!8.4Idañca pana mayaṁ āyasmato sāriputtassa bhāsitaṁ imehi chattiṁsāya vatthūhi anumodāma:And we can express our agreement with Venerable Sāriputta’s statement on these thirty-six grounds.6

9.1PTS 2.115‘Jarāmaraṇassa ce, āvuso, bhikkhu nibbidāya virāgāya nirodhāya dhammaṁ deseti, dhammakathiko bhikkhūti alaṁvacanāya.If a mendicant teaches Dhamma for disillusionment, dispassion, and cessation regarding old age and death, they’re qualified to be called ‘a mendicant who speaks on Dhamma’.9.2Jarāmaraṇassa ce, āvuso, bhikkhu nibbidāya virāgāya nirodhāya paṭipanno hoti, dhammānudhammappaṭipanno bhikkhūti alaṁvacanāya.If they practice for disillusionment, dispassion, and cessation regarding old age and death, they’re qualified to be called ‘a mendicant who practices in line with the teaching’.9.3Jarāmaraṇassa ce, āvuso, bhikkhu nibbidā virāgā nirodhā anupādā vimutto hoti, diṭṭhadhammanibbānappatto bhikkhūti alaṁvacanāya.If they’re freed by not grasping by disillusionment, dispassion, and cessation regarding old age and death, they’re qualified to be called ‘a mendicant who has attained extinguishment in this very life’.9.4Jātiyā ce …If a mendicant teaches Dhamma for disillusionment regarding rebirth …9.5bhavassa ce …continued existence …9.6upādānassa ce …grasping …9.7taṇhāya ce …craving …9.8vedanāya ce …feeling …9.9phassassa ce …contact …9.10saḷāyatanassa ce …the six sense fields …9.11nāmarūpassa ce …name and form …9.12viññāṇassa ce …consciousness …9.13saṅkhārānañce …choices …9.14avijjāya ce, āvuso, bhikkhu nibbidāya virāgāya nirodhāya dhammaṁ deseti, dhammakathiko bhikkhūti alaṁvacanāya.If a mendicant teaches Dhamma for disillusionment, dispassion, and cessation regarding ignorance, they’re qualified to be called ‘a mendicant who speaks on Dhamma’.9.15Avijjāya ce, āvuso, bhikkhu nibbidāya virāgāya nirodhāya paṭipanno hoti, dhammānudhammappaṭipanno bhikkhūti alaṁvacanāya.If they practice for disillusionment, dispassion, and cessation regarding ignorance, they’re qualified to be called ‘a mendicant who practices in line with the teaching’.9.16Avijjāya ce, āvuso, bhikkhu nibbidā virāgā nirodhā anupādā vimutto hoti, diṭṭhadhammanibbānappatto bhikkhūti alaṁvacanāyā’”ti.If they’re freed by not grasping by disillusionment, dispassion, and cessation regarding ignorance, they’re qualified to be called ‘a mendicant who has attained extinguishment in this very life’.”

9.17Sattamaṁ.

Translator’s notes

  1. The two great arahants often engaged each other in erudite Dhamma discussions for their own enjoyment or the education of their students.

    Mahākoṭṭhita was said to be foremost in the methods of textual analysis (AN 1.218:1.1), exemplified by such discussions as MN 43. His verse is at Thag 1.2:0.4.

    ↩ sn12.67:1.1
  2. This is a rare case where this set of four alternatives is not proposed by a non-Buddhist.

    ↩ sn12.67:1.4
  3. For the mutual conditioning of name and form with consciousness see SN 12.65:2.16 and notes there.

    ↩ sn12.67:4.3
  4. Koṭṭhita presses Sāriputta on this point, making sure that students understand the problem and its solution.

    ↩ sn12.67:5.1
  5. Niśraya in the sense of “leaning” a ladder against a post is found at Śatapatha Brāhmaṇa 5.2.1.9.

    ↩ sn12.67:7.4
  6. The three cases mentioned next, multiplied by each of the twelve links.

    ↩ sn12.67:8.4