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SN 16.12PTS SN 2.2221 min read

The Realized One After Death

Paraṁmaraṇasutta

Sāriputta asks Kassapa about whether a Realized One survives death.

Translated by Bhikkhu Sujato · Pāli: Mahāsaṅgīti Tipiṭaka · Public domain (CC0) via SuttaCentral

  • 0.1Saṁyutta Nikāya 16.12Linked Discourses 16.12
  • 0.21. Kassapavagga1. Kassapa

0.3ParaṁmaraṇasuttaThe Realized One After Death

1.1PTS 2.223Ekaṁ samayaṁ āyasmā ca mahākassapo āyasmā ca sāriputto bārāṇasiyaṁ viharanti isipatane migadāye.At one time Venerable Mahākassapa and Venerable Sāriputta were staying near Varanasi in the deer park at Isipatana.

1.2Atha kho āyasmā sāriputto sāyanhasamayaṁ paṭisallānā vuṭṭhito yenāyasmā mahākassapo tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā āyasmatā mahākassapena saddhiṁ sammodi.Then in the late afternoon, Venerable Sāriputta came out of retreat, went to Venerable Mahākassapa, and exchanged greetings with him.1.3Sammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho āyasmā sāriputto āyasmantaṁ mahākassapaṁ etadavoca:When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side and said to Mahākassapa:1

1.4“kiṁ nu kho, āvuso kassapa, hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti?“Reverend Kassapa, does a realized one still exist after death?”2

1.5“Abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, āvuso, bhagavatā:“Reverend, this has not been declared by the Buddha.”1.6‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.

1.7“Kiṁ panāvuso, na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti?“Well then, does a realized one no longer exist after death?”3

1.8“Evampi kho, āvuso, abyākataṁ bhagavatā:“This too has not been declared by the Buddha.”1.9‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.

1.10“Kiṁ nu kho, āvuso, hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti?“Well then, does a realized one both still exist and no longer exist after death?”4

1.11“Abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, āvuso, bhagavatā:“This too has not been declared by the Buddha.”1.12‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.

1.13“Kiṁ panāvuso, neva hoti, na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti?“Well then, does a realized one neither still exist nor no longer exist after death?”5

1.14“Evampi kho, āvuso, abyākataṁ bhagavatā:“This too has not been declared by the Buddha.”1.15‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.

1.16“Kasmā cetaṁ, āvuso, abyākataṁ bhagavatā”ti?“And why has this not been declared by the Buddha?”

1.17“Na hetaṁ, āvuso, atthasaṁhitaṁ nādibrahmacariyakaṁ na nibbidāya na virāgāya na nirodhāya na upasamāya na abhiññāya na sambodhāya na nibbānāya saṁvattati.“Because it’s not beneficial or relevant to the fundamentals of the spiritual life. It doesn’t lead to disillusionment, dispassion, cessation, peace, insight, awakening, and extinguishment.1.18Tasmā taṁ abyākataṁ bhagavatā”ti.That’s why it has not been declared by the Buddha.”

2.1“Atha kiñcarahāvuso, byākataṁ bhagavatā”ti?“So what now has been declared by the Buddha?”2.2“Idaṁ ‘dukkhan’ti kho, āvuso, byākataṁ bhagavatā;“‘This is suffering’ has been declared by the Buddha.2.3ayaṁ ‘dukkhasamudayo’ti byākataṁ bhagavatā;‘This is the origin of suffering’ …2.4ayaṁ ‘dukkhanirodho’ti byākataṁ bhagavatā;‘This is the cessation of suffering’ …2.5ayaṁ ‘dukkhanirodhagāminī paṭipadā’ti byākataṁ bhagavatā”ti.‘This is the practice that leads to the cessation of suffering’ has been declared by the Buddha.”

2.6“Kasmā cetaṁ, āvuso, byākataṁ bhagavatā”ti?“And why has this been declared by the Buddha?”

2.7“Etañhi, āvuso, atthasaṁhitaṁ etaṁ ādibrahmacariyakaṁ etaṁ nibbidāya virāgāya nirodhāya upasamāya abhiññāya sambodhāya nibbānāya saṁvattati.“Because it’s beneficial and relevant to the fundamentals of the spiritual life. It leads to disillusionment, dispassion, cessation, peace, insight, awakening, and extinguishment.2.8Tasmā taṁ byākataṁ bhagavatā”ti.That’s why it has been declared by the Buddha.”

2.9Dvādasamaṁ.

Translator’s notes

  1. This is a stock series of propositions by non-Buddhists, raised here as a teaching method.

    ↩ sn16.12:1.3

  2. An awakened one, whether the Buddha or anyone else, exists after death, for example in an eternal state of Nirvana.

    Here “realized one” (tathāgata) pertains to any arahant, as at SN 54.12. The Pali commentary says that a “living being” (satta) is meant. However, tathāgata and satta are exact verbal parallels: tathā (“real”) + gata (“come to the state of”) and sa (“real”) + tta (“state of”). Thus it seems likely that this was originally intended as a mere verbal gloss to explain the compound. That it does not mean just any sentient being is established at SN 22.86:1.5.

    ↩ sn16.12:1.4

  3. A sage ceases to exist at the time of death. This assumes there is an enduring “self” that is done away with.

    ↩ sn16.12:1.7

  4. This kind of “both A and not A” statement is not meant to be paradoxical or mystical. Rather, they represent some state that combines elements of both. For example, their body does not exist but their mind does.

    ↩ sn16.12:1.10

  5. Likewise, “neither A nor not A” is not meant to be a paradox, but to indicate something that cannot be characterized by the original term. For example, a sage persists after death in a subtle state that is not what we normally consider existence.

    ↩ sn16.12:1.13