0.3KhemāsuttaWith Khemā
1.1PTS 4.374Ekaṁ samayaṁ bhagavā sāvatthiyaṁ viharati jetavane anāthapiṇḍikassa ārāme.At one time the Buddha was staying near Sāvatthī in Jeta’s Grove, Anāthapiṇḍika’s monastery.1
1.2Tena kho pana samayena khemā bhikkhunī kosalesu cārikaṁ caramānā antarā ca sāvatthiṁ antarā ca sāketaṁ toraṇavatthusmiṁ vāsaṁ upagatā hoti.Now at that time the nun Khemā was wandering in the land of the Kosalans between Sāvatthī and Sāketa when she took up residence in Toraṇavatthu.21.3Atha kho rājā pasenadi kosalo sāketā sāvatthiṁ gacchanto, antarā ca sāketaṁ antarā ca sāvatthiṁ toraṇavatthusmiṁ ekarattivāsaṁ upagacchi.Then King Pasenadi was traveling from Sāketa to Sāvatthī, and he too stayed in Toraṇavatthu for a single night.
1.4Atha kho rājā pasenadi kosalo aññataraṁ purisaṁ āmantesi:Then King Pasenadi addressed a man,1.5“ehi tvaṁ, ambho purisa, toraṇavatthusmiṁ tathārūpaṁ samaṇaṁ vā brāhmaṇaṁ vā jāna yamahaṁ ajja payirupāseyyan”ti.“Please, my man, check if there’s a suitable (male) ascetic or brahmin in Toraṇavatthu to whom I can pay homage.”3
2.1“Evaṁ, devā”ti kho so puriso rañño pasenadissa kosalassa paṭissutvā kevalakappaṁ toraṇavatthuṁ āhiṇḍanto nāddasa tathārūpaṁ samaṇaṁ vā brāhmaṇaṁ vā yaṁ rājā pasenadi kosalo payirupāseyya.“Yes, Your Majesty,” replied that man. He searched all over Toraṇavatthu, but he couldn’t see a suitable ascetic or brahmin for the king to pay homage to.
2.2Addasā kho so puriso khemaṁ bhikkhuniṁ toraṇavatthusmiṁ vāsaṁ upagataṁ.But he saw that the nun Khemā was staying there,2.3Disvāna yena rājā pasenadi kosalo tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā rājānaṁ pasenadiṁ kosalaṁ etadavoca:so he went to the king and said to him,3.1PTS 4.375“Natthi kho, deva, toraṇavatthusmiṁ tathārūpo samaṇo vā brāhmaṇo vā yaṁ devo payirupāseyya.“Your Majesty, there’s no (male) ascetic or brahmin in Toraṇavatthu for the king to pay homage to.3.2Atthi ca kho, deva, khemā nāma bhikkhunī, tassa bhagavato sāvikā arahato sammāsambuddhassa.But there is the nun Khemā, who’s a disciple of the Blessed One, the perfected one, the fully awakened Buddha.3.3Tassā kho pana ayyāya evaṁ kalyāṇo kittisaddo abbhuggato:She has a good reputation as being3.4‘paṇḍitā, viyattā medhāvinī bahussutā cittakathā kalyāṇapaṭibhānā’ti.astute, competent, intelligent, learned, a brilliant speaker, and eloquent.3.5Taṁ devo payirupāsatū”ti.Your Majesty may pay homage to her.”4
4.1Atha kho rājā pasenadi kosalo yena khemā bhikkhunī tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā khemaṁ bhikkhuniṁ abhivādetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho rājā pasenadi kosalo khemaṁ bhikkhuniṁ etadavoca:Then King Pasenadi of Kosala went up to the nun Khemā, bowed, sat down to one side, and said to her:5
4.2“kiṁ nu kho, ayye, hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti?“Ma’am, does a realized one still exist after death?”6
4.3“Abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, mahārāja, bhagavatā:“Great king, this has not been declared by the Buddha.”4.4‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.
4.5“Kiṁ panayye, na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti?“Well then, does a realized one no longer exist after death?”7
4.6“Etampi kho, mahārāja, abyākataṁ bhagavatā:“This too has not been declared by the Buddha.”4.7‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.
4.8“Kiṁ nu kho, ayye, hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti?“Well then, does a realized one both still exist and no longer exist after death?”8
4.9“Abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, mahārāja, bhagavatā:“This has not been declared by the Buddha.”4.10‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.
4.11“Kiṁ panayye, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti.“Well then, does a realized one neither still exist nor no longer exist after death?”9
4.12“Etampi kho, mahārāja, abyākataṁ bhagavatā:“This too has not been declared by the Buddha.”4.13‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.
5.1PTS 4.376“‘Kiṁ nu kho, ayye, hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti, iti puṭṭhā samānā:“Ma’am, when asked these questions, you say5.2‘abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, mahārāja, bhagavatā—that this has not been declared by the Buddha.5.3hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vadesi.5.4‘Kiṁ panayye, na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti iti puṭṭhā samānā:5.5‘etampi kho, mahārāja, abyākataṁ bhagavatā—5.6na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vadesi.5.7‘Kiṁ nu kho, ayye, hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti iti puṭṭhā samānā:5.8‘abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, mahārāja, bhagavatā—5.9hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vadesi.5.10‘Kiṁ panayye, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti iti puṭṭhā samānā:5.11‘etampi kho, mahārāja, abyākataṁ bhagavatā—5.12neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vadesi.5.13Ko nu kho, ayye, hetu, ko paccayo yenetaṁ abyākataṁ bhagavatā”ti?What’s the cause, what’s the reason why this has not been declared by the Buddha?”
6.1“Tena hi, mahārāja, taññevettha paṭipucchissāmi. Yathā te khameyya tathā naṁ byākareyyāsi.“Well then, Great King, I’ll ask you about this in return, and you can answer as you like.6.2Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, mahārāja,What do you think, Great King?
6.3atthi te koci gaṇako vā muddiko vā saṅkhāyako vā yo pahoti gaṅgāya vālukaṁ gaṇetuṁ—Do you have any accountant or finger-tallier or reckoner who can count the grains of sand in the Ganges, that is,106.4ettakā vālukā iti vā, ettakāni vālukasatāni iti vā, ettakāni vālukasahassāni iti vā, ettakāni vālukasatasahassāni iti vā”ti?how many grains of sand there are, how many hundreds or thousands or hundreds of thousands of grains of sand?”
6.5“No hetaṁ, ayye”.“No, ma’am.”
6.6“Atthi pana te koci gaṇako vā muddiko vā saṅkhāyako vā yo pahoti mahāsamudde udakaṁ gaṇetuṁ—“Do you have any accountant or finger-tallier or reckoner who can count the water in the ocean, that is,6.7ettakāni udakāḷhakāni iti vā, ettakāni udakāḷhakasatāni iti vā, ettakāni udakāḷhakasahassāni iti vā, ettakāni udakāḷhakasatasahassāni iti vā”ti?how many gallons of water there are, how many hundreds or thousands or hundreds of thousands of gallons of water?”
6.8“No hetaṁ, ayye”.“No, ma’am.6.9“Taṁ kissa hetu”?Why is that?6.10“Mahāyye, samuddo gambhīro appameyyo duppariyogāho”ti.Because the ocean is deep, immeasurable, and hard to fathom.”
6.11“Evameva kho, mahārāja, yena rūpena tathāgataṁ paññāpayamāno paññāpeyya taṁ rūpaṁ tathāgatassa pahīnaṁ ucchinnamūlaṁ tālāvatthukataṁ anabhāvaṅkataṁ āyatiṁ anuppādadhammaṁ.“In the same way, Great King, any form by which a realized one might be described has been cut off at the root, made like a palm stump, obliterated, and unable to arise in the future.6.12Rūpasaṅkhāyavimutto kho, mahārāja, tathāgato gambhīro appameyyo duppariyogāho—A realized one is freed from reckoning in terms of form. They’re deep, immeasurable, and hard to fathom,6.13seyyathāpi mahāsamuddo.like the ocean.6.14‘Hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti.To say that after death, a realized one still exists, or no longer exists, or both still exists and no longer exists, or neither still exists nor no longer exists: none of these apply.
7.1PTS 4.377Yāya vedanāya tathāgataṁ paññāpayamāno paññāpeyya, sā vedanā tathāgatassa pahīnā ucchinnamūlā tālāvatthukatā anabhāvaṅkatā āyatiṁ anuppādadhammā.Any feeling …7.2Vedanāsaṅkhāyavimutto, mahārāja, tathāgato gambhīro appameyyo duppariyogāho—7.3seyyathāpi mahāsamuddo.7.4‘Hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti.8.1Yāya saññāya tathāgataṁ …pe…perception …8.2yehi saṅkhārehi tathāgataṁ paññāpayamāno paññāpeyya, te saṅkhārā tathāgatassa pahīnā ucchinnamūlā tālāvatthukatā anabhāvaṅkatā āyatiṁ anuppādadhammā.choices …8.3Saṅkhārasaṅkhāyavimutto kho, mahārāja, tathāgato gambhīro appameyyo duppariyogāho—8.4seyyathāpi mahāsamuddo.8.5‘Hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti.9.1Yena viññāṇena tathāgataṁ paññāpayamāno paññāpeyya taṁ viññāṇaṁ tathāgatassa pahīnaṁ ucchinnamūlaṁ tālāvatthukataṁ anabhāvaṅkataṁ āyatiṁ anuppādadhammaṁ.consciousness by which a realized one might be described has been cut off at the root, made like a palm stump, obliterated, and unable to arise in the future.9.2Viññāṇasaṅkhāyavimutto kho, mahārāja, tathāgato gambhīro appameyyo duppariyogāho—A realized one is freed from reckoning in terms of consciousness. They’re deep, immeasurable, and hard to fathom,9.3seyyathāpi mahāsamuddo.like the ocean.9.4‘Hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upetī”ti.To say that after death, a realized one still exists, or no longer exists, or both still exists and no longer exists, or neither still exists nor no longer exists: none of these apply.”
9.5Atha kho rājā pasenadi kosalo khemāya bhikkhuniyā bhāsitaṁ abhinanditvā anumoditvā uṭṭhāyāsanā khemaṁ bhikkhuniṁ abhivādetvā padakkhiṇaṁ katvā pakkāmi.Then King Pasenadi approved and agreed with what the nun Khemā said. Then he rose from his seat, bowed, and respectfully circled her, keeping her on his right, before leaving.
10.1PTS 4.378Atha kho rājā pasenadi kosalo aparena samayena yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavantaṁ abhivādetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho rājā pasenadi kosalo bhagavantaṁ etadavoca:Then on a later occasion King Pasenadi of Kosala went up to the Buddha, bowed, and sat down to one side. He asked the Buddha exactly the same questions he had asked the nun Khemā, and received the same answers.10.2“kiṁ nu kho, bhante, hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti?10.3“Abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, mahārāja, mayā:10.4‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.10.5“Kiṁ pana, bhante, na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti?10.6“Etampi kho, mahārāja, abyākataṁ mayā:10.7‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.10.8“Kiṁ nu kho, bhante, hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti?10.9“Abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, mahārāja, mayā:10.10‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.10.11“Kiṁ pana, bhante, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti?10.12“Etampi kho, mahārāja, abyākataṁ mayā:10.13‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.10.14“‘Kiṁ nu kho, bhante, hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti iti puṭṭho samāno:10.15‘abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, mahārāja, mayā—hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vadesi …pe….10.16“‘Kiṁ pana, bhante, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti iti puṭṭho samāno:10.17‘etampi kho, mahārāja, abyākataṁ mayā—10.18neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vadesi.10.19Ko nu kho, bhante, hetu, ko paccayo, yenetaṁ abyākataṁ bhagavatā”ti?
11.1PTS 4.379“Tena hi, mahārāja, taññevettha paṭipucchissāmi. Yathā te khameyya tathā naṁ byākareyyāsi.11.2Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, mahārāja, atthi te koci gaṇako vā muddiko vā saṅkhāyako vā yo pahoti gaṅgāya vālukaṁ gaṇetuṁ—11.3ettakā vālukā iti vā …pe… ettakāni vālukasatasahassāni iti vā”ti?11.4“No hetaṁ, bhante”.11.5“Atthi pana te koci gaṇako vā muddiko vā saṅkhāyako vā yo pahoti mahāsamudde udakaṁ gaṇetuṁ—11.6ettakāni udakāḷhakāni iti vā …pe… ettakāni udakāḷhakasatasahassāni iti vā”ti?11.7“No hetaṁ, bhante”.11.8“Taṁ kissa hetu”?11.9“Mahā, bhante, samuddo gambhīro appameyyo duppariyogāho.
11.10Evameva kho, mahārāja, yena rūpena tathāgataṁ paññāpayamāno paññāpeyya, taṁ rūpaṁ tathāgatassa pahīnaṁ ucchinnamūlaṁ tālāvatthukataṁ anabhāvaṅkataṁ āyatiṁ anuppādadhammaṁ.11.11Rūpasaṅkhāyavimutto kho, mahārāja, tathāgato gambhīro appameyyo duppariyogāho—11.12seyyathāpi mahāsamuddo.11.13‘Hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti …pe…11.14‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti.11.15Yāya vedanāya …pe…11.16yāya saññāya …pe… yehi saṅkhārehi …pe….
12.1Yena viññāṇena tathāgataṁ paññāpayamāno paññāpeyya, taṁ viññāṇaṁ tathāgatassa pahīnaṁ ucchinnamūlaṁ tālāvatthukataṁ anabhāvaṅkataṁ āyatiṁ anuppādadhammaṁ.12.2Viññāṇasaṅkhāyavimutto kho, mahārāja, tathāgato gambhīro appameyyo duppariyogāho—12.3seyyathāpi mahāsamuddo.12.4‘Hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upetī”ti.
13.1PTS 4.380“Acchariyaṁ, bhante, abbhutaṁ, bhante.He said, “It’s incredible, sir, it’s amazing!13.2Yatra hi nāma satthu ceva sāvikāya ca atthena attho byañjanena byañjanaṁ saṁsandissati, samessati, na virodhayissati yadidaṁ aggapadasmiṁ.How the meaning and the phrasing of the Teacher and the disciple fit together and agree without contradiction when it comes to the chief matter!1113.3Ekamidāhaṁ, bhante, samayaṁ khemaṁ bhikkhuniṁ upasaṅkamitvā etamatthaṁ apucchiṁ.This one time I went to the nun Khemā and asked her about this matter.13.4Sāpi me ayyā etehi padehi etehi byañjanehi etamatthaṁ byākāsi, seyyathāpi bhagavā.And she explained it to me with these words and phrases, just like the Buddha.13.5Acchariyaṁ, bhante, abbhutaṁ, bhante.It’s incredible, sir, it’s amazing!13.6Yatra hi nāma satthu ceva sāvikāya ca atthena attho byañjanena byañjanaṁ saṁsandissati, samessati, na virodhayissati yadidaṁ aggapadasmiṁ.How the meaning and the phrasing of the Teacher and the disciple fit together and agree without contradiction when it comes to the chief matter!
13.7Handa dāni mayaṁ, bhante, gacchāma.Well, now, sir, I must go.13.8Bahukiccā mayaṁ bahukaraṇīyā”ti.I have many duties, and much to do.”
13.9“Yassadāni tvaṁ, mahārāja, kālaṁ maññasī”ti.“Please, Great King, go at your convenience.”
13.10Atha kho rājā pasenadi kosalo bhagavato bhāsitaṁ abhinanditvā anumoditvā uṭṭhāyāsanā bhagavantaṁ abhivādetvā padakkhiṇaṁ katvā pakkāmīti.Then King Pasenadi approved and agreed with what the Buddha said. Then he rose from his seat, bowed, and respectfully circled him, keeping him on his right, before leaving.
13.11Paṭhamaṁ.